Innovation Nation
Innovation Nation

Episode · 3 months ago

Learning & Innovation: Tapping Into the Ecosystem of Knowledge w/Dr. Michael Noble

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

The key to our evolution is our innate ability to learn. That’s what drives us forward. It stimulates human innovation. And curiosity is the engine. So, how can we become more active players in that larger ecosystem of knowledge?

On this episode of Innovation Nation, I talk with Dr. Michael Noble, President - Ameri cas at Area9 Lyceum, about how we can improve the way we learn and stimulate curiosity.

We discuss:

  • The relationship between memory and innovation
  • How to improve learning
  • How to encourage curiosity
  • Breaking out of our knowledge bubbles

Tune in on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wh erever you listen to podcasts.

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Innovation is all around us, in fact,everyone innovates, often unbe, notes to themselves many mistakenly assumethe innovation is either a big capital project, a figurative bolt of lightningthat brings inspiration or the province of some exceptionally gifted person.This is the myth of innovation, but you can innovate as well. You are listeningto innovation, nation, the podcast, where top executives and industryexperts are sharing their insights on harnessing the power of innovation,we're here to help you stay ahead of the curve by driving your owninnovation. There's your host Jasmine Marty, Rosen Hi, welcome to Innera Ion nation, ourpodcast, your hostess, Jasmine Morteros in and our guest today is doctor,Michael Noble, who is the president of area nine, their division in the UnitedStates, which is a Danish company, welcome Michael Thank you justman. I'mexcited to be with you guys today. Well, you have her have had some veryinteresting conversations on innovation. Do you mind sharing some of yourthoughts on what drives innovation and organizations? Definitely you know.Innovation is one of those things. That's fascinated me for a long time. Ithink you know I'm in the I've been in the learning industry for over twentyyears and the relationship between you know what we learn right and getting toa level of expertise where we are innovating right. We usually think oflearning is learning what already exists, but if you go to the top ofsomething as simple, as you know, blooms taxonomy right we're getting upinto higher level thinking where we're creating and innovating. So theconnection between learning and innovation. You know, I think, is aprovocative one and that you know suggests that we all have the potentialof innovative behavior in our lives. Excellent- and I know your doctoraldissertation- has done quite a bit of work on memory. How does that tie tohuman ability to innovate? So let's say...

...that it's loosely connected, but I wantto make. I want to show where that kind of red thread is when I was looking atyou know, this English major, you know was studying neumonic and memory,theater memory palaces right. How has that kind of that Greek kind oftradition of how we remember how me memorize as speech right? What doesthat tell us about the brain and how the brain remembers things right,carrying that thought through you see a lot of kind of experts in humanperformance. Take Anders Ericson, who is studying the fact that hey innatality we talk about in need ability is really acquired, ability that wehave acquired through deliberate practice and something as simple asmemorization can be taught. You can teach someone to have an excellentmemory right, and that was the the whole intent of something like theneumonic approach that was established by the Greeks. So you take that ratheracademic idea of studying, like the history of bar kind of approaches tomemory, and you bring it into the practical world today. If we can helppeople learn faster, more efficiently increase their memory bring thingspresent when they need them. You know we're kind of playing in a space thathas been innovative kind of throughout civilization. It's exciting for me, soin that sense, you're saying that innovation is actually inate to us ashumans. It's part of our being. We just do it all the time. It's not a hugeproduction. To begin with, it is one of those things I think that makes ushuman right. It is the in the fact that innovation and technology can nowexcelent our human innovation. That's the next waveof of innovation, for you know for our culture. That's super excitement to me.So learning is key to our evolution and you know, being human, like might have a sense that the moment youstart learning it's like the beginning...

...of the end. You stop learning right.How can and you're one of the leading experts in the field of learning in theUnited States? How can we do better with learning so more people arelearning more actively and you know using that to their benefit as acontinuous effort? Yeah, I mean if you look at like Carol Dweck, who who did alot of work in on growth mindset right. We know that a lot of it is about ourability, our belief, right self efficacy. I can do this. I can learnright that powers or curiosity or drive. It helps us. You know stretch ourselves.The other concept in to my head is one of c. You know mindful learning ElleLanger has a book online, ful learning, there's a concept, I love calledsideways learning, which is we usually think of learning at something top down.I'm going to you know an instructor teaches us something tors bottoms upright and we think off the bottoms up approach, often with like highperformance athletes or anyone that really develops. You know kind ofextraordinary skill with the other, so gifted and talented. Well, we'veinvested a lot in that practice that deliberate practice, you think ofmaster piano players or chess masters, or you know Silicon Valley, you knowprodigies. This comes through a really focused, deliberate practice, and youknow the concept of like sideways learning. Is this being open to noveltybeing like alert and aware of your learning at are and in we do a lot ofwork with metacognition that if we can make you conscious of your incompetenceor your competence, we can improve your learning experience and accelerate yourability to learn how, at whatever age you are so are there you mentionedblooms taxonomy. Can you elaborate a little bit more for our listeners? YeahBlooms, taxonomy from you, O o th s, t s like a basic psychology kind oftaxonomy of you know knowledge from the...

VER y. The very bought base of thepyramid are things like remembering and understanding and knowledge right. Thisis foundational and it moves up in terms of kind of higher order levels ofthinking at the top. You have judgment, analysis creation right, that's whereinnovation fits, because you know once we've laid this foundation and developthis for ourselves, we can. We can jump up or leave up to that, that higherlevel kind of thinking- and you know- I do think- that a lot of what we end updoing in the learning space tends to be down at this at this level ofremembering and understanding and the more that we can do engaging activitiesthat get us into that. You know critical thinking and those types ofthings that gives us. You know innovative thought. Certainlyinnovative thought leads us to innovative technologies, breakthroughsand in sciences all kinds of exciting things. So what I'm hearing you say isa lot of the training and learning happens more at a transactional level,whereas we can lean more out of it. If we create linkages to see how thismakes a further connection, you know what are the langs: where can we findpatterns and commonalities that a fair assistant yeah I mean up until now? Ifyou take something like digital learning, which everybody's excitedabout and especially interested in to Ovid, the idea of digital learningtoday is very much one of distribution. Oh, we can scale who has access toinformation right and that's awesome, and I'm not denigrating that. But thereis a possibility now of saying, let's scale those practices and expertisebuilding that is going to lead to innovation and higher order, thinkingright and that entails. Speaking of like bloom, for example, he's famousfor the taxonomy he's, also famous for discovering that you know. Oh anindividual tutor working with you, you...

...can get two standard deviations higherin terms of performance from an individual tutor than you can in astandard classroom. So that's hard to scale right, the individual tutor andif you're privileged, your parents, give you candle master, comes to YourHouse and teaches your piano. That is a very traditional way of getting thatreally effective learning experience, because the tutor is going topersonalize that experience for you. If we have technology that can personalizethat learning experience for you, it's not just hey. I've got access now tolearning and information. I now have access to that highly efficient andeffective tutoring right that one on one experience. That does a scale verywell. If I can use artificial intelligence to enable that kind ofrecommendation of what to do next right, what's going to be most effective foryou as a learner, based on how much time you spent, how confident you areyour particular journey, we can to prescribe a fixed journey for everybodyo. This is the road to expertise. You do this, you do this! You do this. Weknow that it is that that's artificial and part of what I'm excited about mywork. We're doing right now is we're looking at biological adaptive modelsthat allow for a non line or learner path. That is unique. That knows enough about Jasmin how you'reinteracting to give you a unique experience through digital learningexperience or through a hybrid experience where you have a coacherteacher that is scaling. You know across a large number of studentsinteresting. You were mentioning earlier how there's information is allaround us which it is, but I would argue that information and knowledgeare not the same thing and actually being able to tell the wheat from thechaff when it comes to information, he's a huge factor in determiningoutcomes. Yeah I mean that's the great crisis of our ageright water, watereverywhere and then not a drop to drink.

I think that duration process isimportant. Part of the work that we've done is look at okay, if I've taken.You know this much content and I need to accelerate your experience throughthat that curation experience is as important as what I'm serving up to youright, because if I give you everything, you're drowning in a sea of information,but if I can curate exactly what you need well, we've shown even cut thetime in half and also allow for remediation. So it's not like we'redealing with well. This is what the average is, and so we're going to laythat out for everyone. It's like you know. I I remember in Calculus class inhigh school that we would have the group lecture. I would learn nothingthrough the group lecture and I would go up to the to the the teacherafterwards and say help me with this with this principle. She would give methat one on one experience and that's where I would get that that would be myAha and I would be able to do that because she knew me she knew where mykind of gaps and unique experience were and- and I needed that you know I was-I was not a traditional student because she met you at your level and she knewwhat would be relatable to you. She knew how to get through to youindividually, but in a group setting that's not quite possible right andthat's that's where I think, if we can give that personalized experience to alearner right, they get to mastery sooner faster that mastery then becomesthe basis for then taking on. You know kind of that creative, innovative kindof learning that happens there and teaches them delirare practice teachesthem how to learn right. The more we look know about our own blind spots.Those biases become less powerful when we have workarounds to be able to. Youknow to get around those and keep progressing. Make Sense. Are the umetcuriosity, I'm a huge proponent of...

...curiosity and I think it makes aenormous difference in people's lives outcomes? How do we encourage curiosityany thoughts on that? It's such a big topic, I'm thinking you know, I'mthinking about kids and how we we inspire curiosity in either ourchildren or you know in that generation that we're working with either in aneducation context. A lot of it is letting people go in that non, linearor sideways direction, and we spend so much time coralling people to these. This is your Okar. This iswhat this is your objective in your goal and you're whatever, and we try tocreate this linear path there, where we could be having a sideways conversationabout something unrelated, but there is either a pattern in that that our brainrecognizes a pattern and we did apply it in a different context right andthat curiosity. That fact that I was well that I allowed myself andpermitted myself to study you know something. congential is going to giveme that innovation, I'm looking for here, because I've got a new pattern onmy head and new perspective, and you know computers are great at giving UScomplex calculations and roadcart right formulas and algorithms. Humans areawesome at pattern matching and meaning making and curiosity that's what teasesour brain to want to do that a little bit more right, we've! None of us areinspired by Oh in this course. You will do this thisthis and this that doesn't make us curious yeah. It does not give us aninquiry or a problem to solve or puzzle, and you know people try to Bo we'regoing to gamifying, we'll add a theme or we'll do that. That's getting aroundthe core issue of how we engage people, how we engage their brain in the realproblem. Interesting, I mean ai is all around us and it's not me. It's beenaround AFTA for quite a while and it...

...powers so many so much of thetechnology that we use to day. Most people may not even realize that, butdoes that also constrict some of that curiosity? The accidental discovery. Ithink there's ways that it could I mean you read stuff, you know ethesus and Ilove reading the futurists and they're talking about the ethics of Ai and androbotics, and just this dumb down society right, because, oh it's makingdecisions for us. We have to think about the kinds of decisions that ismaking for us and the kinds of decisions that it enables right.There's an enablement that happens with that and technology doesn't also haveto be used. Ai Can be used in lots of ways right, andrew an talks about Ai,as I think the metaphors. It's the new electricity, just like it's takingcertain decisions, you know and and getting them out of the way for usthere's also you know in my field. I want to look at how that H, artificialintellect can accelerate those human things. Our decision making take whatbefore was in the realm of the elite or the the quote, unquote genius andmaking that available, that same kind of accelerated learning track ormastery or lifelong learning that that can be available to everybody. Andthat's what's exciting to me about a I and that counterbalances the dumbingdown that you know the dumping down of society. You have this kind ofelevation and enablement of of intelligence, an expert performance,everything kind of is working to swords that dumbing down right. An you turn ona television program. There is a major disaster or something and there'severybody's looking for one line, explanation, but it's the reality ismore complex so, and I think it's an constant like target pool of trying tosimplify things to reach audiences versus shedding light on, what's reallyhappening. It makes teaching critical...

...fear, thinking and analysis and usbeing kind of savvy human players in that ecosystem. If you think of analogyfor system and the role, a combined text stack in human stack right, wherewe're getting inputs from all places it does, we do have to think about notbeing passive recipients, but how do we become active players in that ecosystem?That's a great phrase: The Knowledge Co System, so I don't think it's usedenough when we should have awareness of it like what knowledgy co system are wesurrounding ourselves with which one do we inhabit ourselves, because peoplecreate these bubbles right, they create these bubbles that they live in. Thatare, I think, they're the opposite of curious right. It's I'm not curious,there's something validating for me in a in a particular subsystem right andhow do we tap into the larger collective knowledge ecosystem? Youjust mentioned something interesting. It would be very hard to come across aperson, though thou would say. I'm not curious, like a politician speakingagainst children right, it kind of does not happen, but in reality we all knowthere are lots of people who, in effect, are not intensely curious and inhabitabove l. So how do we break through to that?Because the more curiosity, I think, the more evolution for society? So that's an interest. That's a veryporocatepetl, I think, and what what immediately popped to my head was. Youknow these ingredients of you know what motivates people, what makes peoplepassionate or interested in something- and you know there's if you have thatpassion right that enables okay, I'm going to persist an I'm going to dohard things right or I'm going to break out of my bubble or I'm going to I'mgoing to. You know, change or do something different, and you know we'reso motivated by Understanding Cape. We...

...think about. What's in it, for us,people are actually really strongly motivated if they understand what willbenefit others as well. So there's that mix, I think in terms of generating thekind of passion that will say. Okay, I'm not only curious as a person, Idon't want anyone to think I'm close minded, but we have to get beyond justthat time, open kind of generic statement to I'm actually going toexplore and discover new things. That's how I'm going to spend my time when I'meither at work, if you're fortunate enough to have that or outside of workor- and I think that's where there's this kind of movement in our culture tolook at. How are we benefiting others right and ourselves, and there's this Ithink, that's an exciting way of maybe converting their curiosity to actionvery thought, provoking conversation micro, any additional thoughts onhelping people drive innovation within their organizations and lives. You know,I think, if you think of your organization, as you know, we want toput processes and practices in place so that we can have efficiency in scalethat promotes stability, but fixes us in time a better metaphors to think.Okay, I've got this dynamic thing. That's always changing and alwaysmoving and to be a learning organization, isn't hey. I have to havean land department that that does training or whatever. We know that mostof that investment is wasted and lost. So, as you have to you have to look athow is learning approximate to the point of need and the organization and-and that I think, is the answer at least that I'm o exploring right nowexcellent. Well, thank you for joining us today. This was Dr Michael, nobleand your host Jasmine Marthien. Thank you. My Jusi you've been listening to innovationnation for Morei, subscribe to the...

...podcast in your favorite podcast player,or connect with this on linked in thanks for listening to.

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